To A Mormon

 

 

For the edification of all who read, below is a brief introduction and then a point for point response to one Mormon gentleman I’ve interacted with recently.

Every Christian engaged in any kind of apologetics knows the difficulty of religious groups like Mormonism. You want to be nice, you work hard to be nice, you study to rightly understand them, you’re commanded to be gracious, but the issues still just need to be dealt with. Simply put: to not deal with the issues is the exact opposite of nice. To not deal with the issues is actually evil. Every Christian apologist knows that. The LDS religion is not Christian. I’ll prove it in this paragraph. We all know that Mormons are polytheistic and that Christians are monotheistic. Mormonism is literally the most polytheistic religious system I’m aware of on planet earth. More than Hinduism. Mormons deny or sidestep the Bible’s repeated claims that there is only one God who has ever or will ever exist anywhere at any time. This affects literally everything else. We know that Mormons have a different god than us in a number of definitional ways. Their view of god is literally that he is merely an exalted human man. A creature changed into “a” creator. In the LDS construct, if you were to bow down right now at the feet of any qualified Mormon male and begin worshipping him as you were taught to worship god alone, please hear me: you’d only be premature. He’ll one day actually be worthy of it if the other gods decide so. You’re not yet to do so they’d surely say, but one day, his creation in another zip code of the eternal universe will. Can any more blasphemous an idea ever be put forth than that? No. I don’t know of any idea more repugnant to a Christian than this. The LDS view of god (the god they claim is the same as the Christian’s) is that he is a mere human being, a sinner once needing forgiveness from his god and who they say got it through obedience, and has now become a god among the many other countless gods. Their monotheism is merely a zip code kind of a thing. Mormons believe you’re only to worship the god of this zip code in the universe. They mask this as “monotheism.” They’ll often attempt to then avoid the subject altogether, or claim they’re “attacked” when challenged on it by the Christian monotheist. They don’t want Christians to see their views on this regularly, but if you ever find an honest Mormon (hard to find these days) they’ll tell you straight up. A zip code type of monotheism is not monotheism and alone disqualifies it from consideration as a Christian religion entirely. Such a being is so far below the Bible’s claim of who God is that there’s no comparison. On this theological point alone there is no doubt that we don’t have the same God as Mormons. An honest Mormon wouldn’t hide it either. Smith didn’t. In light of this, Mormons believe in a salvation ultimately of one’s own self-righteous pursuit. Like all other religious systems, the idea of an imputed righteousness (Christianity) is entirely foreign to them. Their entire system is not the showcase of God’s un-merited mercy to sinners, but the continuing process designed by a former man now become a god to help Mormons become future gods and goddesses. This distorts their views on Jesus, of course, as well. Their jesus is another created being. He is ontologically no different than their satan. The Christian Jesus is not a creature. He is a member of the triune God. In the LDS religion, dead men are the angels. Adam is the “Ancient of Days” in Daniel 7 before whom their jesus will stand. Adam is also the angel Michael. Noah became the angel Gabriel. In the Christian religion the angels are creatures. There is absolutely no point in “seeking unity” with such a view because there can obviously be no spiritual unity between Christianity and Mormonism. There can and should be natural be peace and kindness, but not in the avoidance of truth. Yet still, despite all this, Mormons today, unlike Joseph Smith their “Prophet”, want to approach Christians like this young man has here below. Grace to all who read in Jesus Christ.

Comments between us are preceded with “Mormon” or “Christian”.

[Mormon:]
Hi, I came across your website as a result of a comment you made on a tweet that I posted. I browsed your twitter account and visited your website, and just wanted to let you know that I am impressed with the work you are doing to spread the message of Jesus Christ. You appear to have dedicated your entire life to spreading His word and helping people learn more of Him. I feel like we need more of that in the world.

[Christian:]
Obviously, very polite. For many today, that’s enough. If you’re nice you’re good. If you’re not you lose no matter what the subject is. Don’t fall for it. But here’s what baffles me: the Gospel of Jesus I’m spreading (that he refers to) was denied and even condemned by Joseph Smith, the chief spokesman of his god and faith. So, how can this fellow claim that I’m doing anything good as he says here? What we have here is a pseudo-politeness on an entirely false premise. This is the kind of pleasantry that precedes a crucifixion. I want to be gracious, but not at the expense of the Cross. I prefer kindness on true premise. He cannot truly compliment me in what I do. What I do directly condemns his religion. There’s simply no avoiding this. Progress can be made in biblical studies only on true premises.

[Mormon:]
I also wanted to respond to the comment that you made on my tweet. Your comment stated, “The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction.” I also noticed that you have posted a number of dissenting opinions about the Church in posts, tweets, or replies. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and can share that however you want, but I would like to ask: why the vitriol toward the LDS Church?

Of course we have differences in our understanding of many scriptural truths. But I personally feel that in a world which is becoming increasingly secular and less interested in following the teachings of Jesus Christ, it does no good to attack people who are doing their best to follow the Savior. It comes across as immature and unkind when you go out of your way to make accusations about truths that Mormons hold so dear. Imagine how you might feel if (and I’m sure you’ve experienced this) somebody said to you, “The Bible is a work of fiction.”

To Mormons, the Book of Mormon is a miracle. We are grateful to have more of God’s words which support and validate that which He has given us in the Bible. Who is to say that there weren’t other people in the world to whom God was speaking during the same time the Bible was being revealed?

[Christian:]
I will work to bring truth to all people outside of Jesus Christ. Jesus deserves that, I’ve been saved, and so I want others to be as well. There are many other religions out there. I will humbly stand against them all, as necessary, to diffuse the knowledge of God in Christ, 2 Corinthians 2:14-15. I will do this in grace and love, but don’t pervert all that I believe, claim it’s the same as what I believe, and then have the gall to expect me to appreciate it! Come on?! It’s those religions among them like Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses or Catholics who must inherently be dealt with in their own ways because they claim to represent Jesus and his Gospel. They claim to be of the truth, but are not. A Muslim claims a truth as well, but they’re not attempting to “get in bed with me” to seduce me to sexual immorality. If the LDS god existed in Moses’ day, the command to deal with it was outlined in Deuteronomy 13. Because of the false premises of “unnecessary division” that many ignorant brutes (mostly from Catholics and Mormons in the three pseudo-Christian groups I mentioned above) when we debate these things they are inherently more polemic. I have no greater animosity to maintain, but it’s views who claim to be closest to the truth that often must be opposed with greater ferocity at times (I.e. consider Paul and the Judaizers vs. Paul in Athens).

Mormons are not “following Jesus.” They never have been, friends. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were false polygamist prophets. Smith had aspirations to the Presidency of the United States before he was murdered for crying out loud. He was dreaming big. They had nearly 90 wives between them on one count. Another evidence of their clear disqualification then for New Covenant ministry is seen in 1 Timothy 3:2; 12; Titus 1:16, et al. No polygamist can even be a deacon in the church, let alone some main prophets. But hey, when you’re re-writing everything according to a new god, sky’s the limit, right?! “Oh, but we’re Christians” they say. No. Every serious Christian literally since the start has known they did not know God. The false assumption this polite gentleman makes here that they are and that we shouldn’t then attack each other in an increasingly secular world, etc., must be dealt with head-on. The Mormon’s “worship” of God is as the man in view in view in the following passage from Isaiah 45:14-18:

“He cuts down cedars for himself,
And takes the cypress and the oak;
He secures it for himself among the trees of the forest.
He plants a pine, and the rain nourishes it.
¹⁵ Then it shall be for a man to burn,
For he will take some of it and warm himself;
Yes, he kindles it and bakes bread;
Indeed he makes a god and worships it;
He makes it a carved image, and falls down to it.
¹⁶ He burns half of it in the fire;
With this half he eats meat;
He roasts a roast, and is satisfied.
He even warms himself and says,
“Ah! I am warm,
I have seen the fire.”
¹⁷ And the rest of it he makes into a god,
His carved image.
He falls down before it and worships it,
Prays to it and says,
“Deliver me, for you are my god!”
¹⁸ They do not know nor understand;
For He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see,
And their hearts, so that they cannot understand.”

This is the Mormon today. Dumb, blind, no understanding, idolatrous. Period. The moment we forget this is the moment we ourselves become false prophets. It matters who God is. It matters who Jesus is. It matters who we are. And all that matters in light of Scripture! The Mormon christ will not make one lick-a-difference on Judgment Day because he doesn’t exist. He literally did not die on any cross. So, 90% of what this man just said is refuted. The world is increasingly secular. Yes. Mormonism is another part of it. I’m not “attacking Christians” when I speak against Mormonism. I’m addressing Mormons who need to be saved. Just as when I “attack” Hindus I’m not attacking “people of other godish persuasions.” I’m addressing Hindus who need to be saved. Of course, there’s an abbreviated/almost inherent polemical stance when you’ve only so many characters on Twitter as well. It’s a digital conversation. They can’t hear the concern I have for them. I can’t have a meal with them and witness to them. The Mormon religion gives no more honor to God than atheism does. It is simply another of Satan’s many ways to confuse those dead in their sin.

He wrote in the same part above: “It comes across as immature and unkind when you go out of your way to make accusations about truths that Mormons hold so dear.” Is that like when Smith wrote that his god told him, “All of their [my] creeds are an abomination” and that “All of their [my] teachers are corrupt,” etc.? In great detail through all his many false claims, he defined clearly what was meant by this in his utter rejection of Scripture. Smith did not claim to be a reformer; he claimed to be a restorer. Why do Mormons hide this? Is it cowardice, ignorance, or are they truly trying to deceive people? He clearly opposed literally every single truth of the Bible in regards to God and Christian salvation. Those are the creeds he showed he denied. Our creeds are precious to us as Christians, but it’s okay when Smith says they’re all (all of them) “an abomination”; it’s just not okay when we return the remark to his claims? Really? Where is the honesty from LDS believers today? They know this full well. Full well. They know and have been taught the “errors” of the many denominations. They know we have a different Jesus. They deny the Jehovah’s Witness’s Jesus (many do), but it’s good marketing for them to keep pretending there’s not a dagger in their hand for the triune God Christians have always proclaimed. Literally. Always. They know Smith had no fellowship with such as us yet they play victim. I know they’re just deceived most of the time, but it just gets right up my nose. This passive aggressive stance has to be dealt with for progress and prayer.

[Mormon:]
Remember, the Savior taught that the way in which all men will know whether or not you are a follower of Him is if you have love one toward another (see John 13:35). He also taught that the two greatest commandments are to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves (see Matthew 22:36-39). The Master would have us treat everyone with kindness, even those who do not believe the same as we do. God loves all of His children, for “He maketh his sun to rise on the evil, and on the good” (Matthew 5:45).

[Christian:]
One: we’re not all God’s children. Christians, by faith, are adopted sons and daughters in Christ. We’re not born his children. Only by virtue of creation are we all his “children”, but Jesus taught we must be born again. This is LDS theology again showing its biblical illiteracy.

Four passages to reply to this misuse of biblical teaching-

1. ¹⁸ “For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: ¹⁹ whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.” –Paul (Philippians 3:18-19). Nice/true, but those of whom he spoke likely wouldn’t agree. They’d likely say he’s just “attacking” here.

2. ¹¹ “And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. ¹² I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!” –Paul again (Galatians 5:11-13). Nice/true, but those of whom he spoke likely wouldn’t agree. They’d likely say he’s just “attacking” here.

3. ²⁷ “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. ²⁸ Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.” –Jesus (Matthew 23:27-18). This is God incarnate talking now. He who is love. Nice/true, but those of whom he spoke likely wouldn’t agree. They’d likely say he’s just “attacking” here.

4. ²² “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. ²³ Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” –John (1 John 2:22-23). Nice/true, but those of whom he spoke likely wouldn’t agree. They’d likely say he’s just “attacking” here.

Yes, be kind. But never let kindness be confused with truth. Especially not with a lying religion who wants to get in bed with you and a few billion other gods and dare to call itself Christian. God forbid we’d ever be so ignorant to be “nice” about that! To hell with that “kindness”! That’s a lying politician’s “kindness”, not a disciple of Jesus’. And that “love” we’re to be known by is in house. Jesus told “his disciples” that. It’s a love one to another who are in him in salvation. It’s in the church. It cannot therefore truly exist between a Mormon and a Christian. To those who are outside the church, we still show love, but it’s not on an altar (called relativism or pleasantry) bleeding to death. If I didn’t love the Mormon, I’d not oppose him. If I love him, as with any man, I’ll tell him the truth. That’s not rude. That’s a virtue whenever it’s done in grace. I don’t hate the Mormon. Not at all! God forbid I’d show them anything other than grace. But don’t pretend we have the same Faith. That’s incredibly rude and disrespectful. Ironically, I firmly believe Smith would tell you so if he were here today as well.

[Mormon:]
I would hope that you will allow me to continue to follow you on Twitter, as I appreciate the insights that you have and enjoy learning from people with a different perspective. I would also hope that you could show more respect to members of my church in your comments and commentary, even as you write about your disagreements with aspects of the LDS Church.

[Christian:]
There will always be respect. But welcome to the fight. Smith put on his gloves and stepped into the ring. You want to step out there in the marketplace and oppose Jesus and yet call yourself a disciple? Welcome to the fight. It’s war. War!

[Mormon:]
Sincerely,
[name removed out of respect]

P.S. If you are up for the challenge, I would encourage you to read 3 chapters from the Book of Mormon: Mosiah 3-5 (the book is online at scriptures.lds.org/bm) and judge whether it feels like we do not believe in and strive to follow Jesus Christ. I am not trying to persuade you to believe as I believe, but feel like those chapters would give you better perspective about what we believe.

[Christian:]
“Feeling”? “…judge whether it feels…” cf. Deuteronomy 13 again, please. (And please note, I’m glad you’re not to be stoned today). This is a common Mormon challenge. People that don’t know Jesus might fall for it. We should read their writings. We should. We should know why we oppose something when we oppose it. I have many thick volumes of LDS literature written from Mormons to teach other Mormons. I’ve read the Book of Mormon. It’s not from God. God told me so…in his already given revelation, the Bible. Deuteronomy 13. None of the Book of Mormon is blessed.

If the devil holds even a mirror to the Bible, ask yourself why he’d ever do it.

Grace to you…from another witness who to some here will stink like death, and to others will smell like life. To the Mormon we can only smell like death, but we’re no peddlers. If you want to debate this and record it for the world to hear, I’m in. Let’s let the premise be something like, “Is Mormon Theology Compatible with Christian Theology?” Prove me wrong. Let’s talk about it. Until then, please stop lying about us. Spend time with some learned Christians. Start being a bit more like your Prophet and speak what you believe.